Preparing to survive in a post-SHTF world is challenging. More than anything, we have to realize that we’re preparing blind. We don’t know what sort of disaster we’re facing or what the post-disaster world is going to look like. With those two pieces of information missing, it’s hard to know exactly how people will react and what they will do. Therefore, we must prepare for the worst.
There is a wide-ranging assumption that public servants will abandon their posts. I would have to say that this assumption is totally unfair. We live in a hurricane zone and my wife is a city employee. She and her co-workers are required to agree that they will stay on the job, protecting the citizens of the city and keeping city services running, both during and after a hurricane. While a few might abandon their posts if things get bad enough, most seem to be people who will follow through on that requirement.
But what about a worst-case scenario? What about in the wake of an EMP or other grid-destroying event, which would result in a true breakdown of society and the banking system; a situation where they would no longer be paid to do their jobs?
That’s a difficult question. For some, like my wife, their positions probably wouldn’t exist anymore. But the real issue here is emergency workers and law enforcement officers. We would greatly need their services in the wake of such a serious disaster. Would they stay on the job or would they feel they had to abandon their posts to care for their families?
There’s really no way of knowing the answer to that question until the time comes. It is a very individual question, so I imagine that some will stay, while others leave. Whether they stay or leave will largely determine whether they are friend or foe.
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The Cops Who Stay on the Job
Police officers tend to be highly disciplined individuals, much like soldiers. In fact, many start out as soldiers, then move to law enforcement when they get out of the military. As such, they are largely people with a high regard for the law. Oh, there are the few bad apples; but despite stories saying otherwise, there aren’t many of them.
Those who stay on the job will be concerned with maintaining law and order in the worst of circumstances. They will also be subject to the politicians who are still in place over them. This means that if those politicians declare martial law, they will most likely enforce martial law, unless they believe that to be an unlawful order.
This could get sticky. As we saw during Hurricane Katrina, declaring martial law would probably mean they would be confiscating guns as well. That would put the police in the position of appearing to be the enemy in the eyes of any Second Amendment supporter. Whether or not they actually became an enemy would depend on how you, I and other gun owners would react to them. If we use force to reject their orders to turn over our guns, they will use force in response. That makes them our de-facto enemies.
The Cops Who Abandon their Posts
Some police officers may choose to abandon their posts, especially if they feel that their families are in danger. In that case, the question is what they will do to protect and care for their families. While there are very few bad cops out there, there is always the possibility that a cop will turn bad in such circumstances, out of desperation to take care of their families.
These people will be dangerous, because they will be able to present themselves to the public as law-enforcement officers, when in fact they are acting like criminals. There could even be some cases in smaller communities, where the police take over, much as warlords take over in times of anarchy. Should that happen, the police in question would be extremely dangerous.
It would be our duty, in such a case, to stand up against the police. But here’s the problem. How do you tell if what they are doing is in the public interest, or just in self-interest? If they are acting in the public interest, our duty is to support them, so we need to be sure they are the enemy, before treating them as such.
The National Guard
If military forces are called out to help gain control, it will be the National Guard, not the active military. US law prohibits the use of US military forces within the borders of the United States. Even if politicians in high places wanted to use the regular Army, it is doubtful that Army officers, all of whom know that prohibition in the law, would allow it.
But state Governors can call out the National Guard to help law enforcement in maintaining law and order. It’s not unusual for this to happen in the case of natural disasters. I would say that we should expect it to happen in a true SHTF scenario.
National Guard forces are US Army reserve soldiers and formations, which are “owned” by the governors of the several states. They serve a dual role, both as state owned military forces and reserves for the federal forces. If called out in a disaster situation, they could serve either to support law-enforcement or to provide disaster relief. In either case, they would be armed.
Should martial law be declared, it is highly likely that the National Guard would be called out. If guns are confiscated, they are the ones who would most likely do the confiscation. They would probably be as polite as possible about it; but if they decided to obey that order, they would do their best to fulfill it.
However, the National Guard, like other military forces, is made up of predominantly conservatives. There’s a very good chance that they would refuse an order to disarm the population. Military officers swear an oath to uphold the Constitution and they would likely see the disarm order as a clear violation of the Second Amendment. As such, it would be their duty to refuse that order.
Of all these options, UN troops is the most dangerous. Any decision to use UN troops would have to be made at the federal government level. Were such a decision to be made, the troops which would be brought in to help maintain civil order would not be American troops. They would be unfamiliar with our culture (other than what they had seen in movies) and unfamiliar with our laws.
To these troops, a firearm confiscation order would seem perfectly reasonable, especially when you consider that they would probably come from a country where they don’t enjoy our Second Amendment protections. There would be no appeal to them on the grounds of our Constitution.
Should this happen, refusing an order to turn over your guns would be dangerous. The only thing that would protect any of us is the fact that there is no federal gun registration. Even so, there are states which require a permit to own guns, as well as concealed carry licenses which many of us have. That would give them a starting point for where to look.
Getting into a battle with armed troops is foolish. In such a situation, the only practical recourse is to hide all your guns where they won’t be able to find them, with the exception of a few, which you could then allow them to confiscate, making them think you’ve obeyed the order.
Regardless of the specific situation we would end up encountering, chances are that any police or military forces which were still in operation, would be there as part of whatever government managed to survive. Unless such forces decide to go rogue, we can count on them being there to help.
That doesn’t mean they’ll be our friends though. Unless you know them personally, they will look on you with suspicion, just like they will everyone else. Anyone carrying a weapon openly will be suspect. That doesn’t mean that they’ll hassle you, take away your weapons, fire upon you or arrest you; it just means that they will be watching to make sure that you aren’t a problem that they need to deal with.
The best thing you and I will be able to do in such a situation is to keep ourselves below the radar, so that we aren’t noticed. If we are not noticed, hopefully we will be left alone.
Should orders go out to confiscate any supplies that are stockpiled, it would probably be a good time to put our bug out plans into effect. Hopefully, we’ll all have a cache of supplies elsewhere, so that when we lose the supplies that we have stockpiled at home, we’ll still be okay.
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14 thoughts on “NewsBlog The Police and Military when SHTF – Friend or Armed Foe? Any police or military forces which were still in operation, would be there as part of whatever government managed to survive!”
And I quote “It would be our duty, in such a case, to stand up against the police. But here’s the problem. How do you tell if what they are doing is in the public interest, or just in self-interest? If they are acting in the public interest, our duty is to support them, so we need to be sure they are the enemy, before treating them as such.” –
Easy answer here. You let your understanding of the constitution determine your response. If they demand an action that is unconstitutional then they are a de facto oppressor and then it matters not who they represent. Looking at it through the lens of the “prudent man test” and with appropriate moral turpitude my overarching right to protect my family trumps all other’s rights as long as I always remain on the defensive.
Humans are seriously trusting and naïve. All people need to know is that peace is an aberration and war is the norm. Humans are cruel and diabolical right out of the womb. The milk of human kindness does not exist. Survival of the fittest is the rule. Law of the jungle is paramount. Read or watch “Lord of the Flies” Your neighbor next door is the future Gestapo or KGB executioner.
This is a very mixed bag indeed. A law abiding law enforcement officer will never confiscate guns. The moment he does, he is no longer abiding by the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land. Most officers have fallen into the habit of obeying orders, even when they are unlawful. If they get hungry enough, they will likely use their positions to confiscate food and whatever else they and their family need or want. In fact, many departments already do this and we aren’t even in full blown famine yet. Yes, I think there is some percentage of very honorable police officers who know and will attempt to uphold the Constitution, but most do not know enough about the law to understand the difference between the civil code ordered by a tyrant dictator and the boundaries set by the Constitution.
Which departments do this already?
If martial law is called for, the Constitution is rendered useless. So anyone calling the shots in so called gov is a tyrant. Anyone who follows that order is a traitor America. Now if you suspend the Constitution for martial law… how can that be? If there is no constitution to follow, then it is a free for all.
Listen they are not patriots if they attempt to do this ! A person with a gun is a citizen a person without a gun is a peasant ! PERIOD ! All laws that have been created to limit the 2nd amendment, all are unconstitutional !! That’s why the founders made this provision ! It was put in to warn the lawmakers that they will be dealt with swiftly and with death ! We need to have a backbone. most people are wossies and don’t have a spine. I DO !!! They might get me but I doubt it ! I will fight to the death for my family my land and my country the way that it use to be. Not this Piece of S*** way that it is being turned into ! Nathan Hale, Patrick Henry are my HEREOS, I only fear GOD and my Wife !!
Of course there are honorable police officers on the streets, thousands of them. However LEOs (or law enforcement officers) are only one leg of a functioning justice system. The other two are the Courts and Incarceration (detention centers/jails/prisons). LEOs serve little or no purpose if the Courts and Jails are no longer functional. One has only to look at Portland, Seattle, Chicago, and San Francisco as examples to see what happens when one or more elements of the justice system becomes dysfunctional or absent altogether. 10 cops or 1000 cops or 10,000 cops makes no difference if the remainder of the justice system is broken or absent. And, absent a complete and functioning justice system, any LEOs still remaining on the streets attempting to maintain a civil society that is breaking down would literally have to take the “law into their own hands” to maintain order. You don’t want that. Trust me. Stated differently, you’ve already witnessed in multiple states and municipalities that an entire justice system breaks down if just one part of it breaks down. Consider that without both morals and ethics, a civil society cannot exist. When was the last time you’ve witnessed either morality or ethics exhibited by the preponderance of current federal or state government employees or politicians? Or in the general population for that matter? You can see where this is going. Envision the trajectory of a gliding anvil. What is the likelihood of altering the trajectory let alone reversing its course? Those of you who are both awake and conscious would be well advised to brace for impact and prepare accordingly. The honorable LEOs have, and will continue, to do their best until the day they can’t (or are not allowed to). As for the firearms, those LEOs who might attempt to seize them, if ordered to do so, would be knowingly acting as enemies of the Bill of Rights, the U.S. Constitution, the American people, and therefore your enemies as well.
I know one thing. When these “employees” find their families in danger THEY WILL evacuate their post and head home. Do you think they really are worried about you?
THE POLICE GANGS AND MILITARY ARE ALL DEVILS AND TRAITORS,they were given an OATH to protect the people and the US CONSTITUTION,it never ment shit to any of them,THE GO WITH THEIR DADDY SATAN every time..OUR FATHER in HEAVEN says ALL your government employees are ROTTEN TO THE CORE,INSIDE AND OUT,and there are NO GOOD ONES,their all rotten,IF anyone is stupid enough to trust these devils,YOU ARE PUTTING YOU AND YOUR FAMILY IN GRAVE DANGER…cv-PROVED THEY CAN’T BE TRUSTED…IF your on their side,YOUR NOT ONLY AN IDIOT,you’ll soon be dead at their hands and your family will become SLAVES in their new world order…
We are at the period of no Rule of Law. The next period will be, “The only rule is … there are no rules. Unrestricted warfare.
Well, I could angrily argue that all present day cops are by default prone to do evil and prove my point. But what would doing so accomplish but to aggravate and insult men and women I’ve no desire too aggravate and insult. They’re doing a necessary job, a difficult and dangerous job and a job absolutely necessary for any civil society.
So my main point is simply this, it is THE LAW itself which has become EVIL and in tasking men and women to enforce evil law they are tainted in so doing.
Allow me to expand your minds.
Constitutionally speaking ANY law that makes the effected victims those who the law is being enforced upon and where no other exists that suffered harm ( and a ‘ STATE ‘ is NOT a person and as such CAN NOT BE INJURED as it can not produce a BODY, a HUMAN BEING ) then that law is an abomination before God and men.
Examples of such law are TRAFFIC / PARKING TICKETS. The only individual harmed by these laws are those who are targeted by the State. These ticketing laws are in fact an inequity of taxation, one that is defined by a CLASS SYSTEM whereas the Elite, Wealthy and the Judicial System employees are exempted by those enforcing these laws ( for the most part ). And in truth they are used by the Authority as a tax, to fund other projects . So rather than petition the citizens to approve another tax the STATE/ Authority has created one by defrauding the citizens under color of law.
Here’s a rule of thumb:
harm someone else make it right.
Damage someone else’s property, make it right.
And that’s what law is supposed to be based upon… and in too many cases todays law isn’t based upon this. And it is in the creation of evil
Law that we’ve made evil persons out of well intentioned men and women doing a job.
Law enforcement are your friends until they aren’t. Like in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc.
They will serve whoever is paying them. Look at Venezuela. The police and military did not have to worry about food, clean water, toilet paper, etc. Plan accordingly.
A hurricane is just that area so yes staying on the job is no problem, BUT an EMP that a way different animals, EMP would most likely be nationwide event and to think any cop would be on the job after a week or two is just a dreamer.